Sure reactor heat will be higher and over a greater period of time to dissipate into the ground but its the same function.
https://www.radiantec.com/about-radiant … scription/
Solar RADIATION HEAT TRANSFER
The heat must go away from the working fluid and that is what a heatsink does.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva462/slva462.pdf
https://celsiainc.com/heat-sink-size-calculator/
Plus what we are calling geo energy and heatpumps
]]>Kind regards
Ben
]]>The ozone layer is found within the stratosphere at between 15 to 30 km (9 to 19 miles) altitude. The thickness of the ozone layer varies by the season and also by the latitude. The amount of ozone present in the ozone layer is tiny, only a few molecules per million air molecules.
Earth's radius can have several values, depending on how it is measured; from its equatorial radius of about 6,378 kilometres and its polar radius of about 6,357 kilometres.
Mars is less dense than Earth, having about 15% of Earth's volume and 11% of Earth's mass, resulting in about 38% of Earth's surface gravity.
Mar's radius can have several values; from its equatorial radius of about 3,396 kilometres and its polar radius of about 3,376 kilometres.
Clouds of water ice hover at altitudes 20 to 30 kilometers, and clouds of carbon dioxide form at approximately 50 kilometers
http://mathscinotes.com/2012/10/earth-a … e-to-mars/
The surface pressure on Mars is equivalent to the range of pressures on Earth at altitudes between ~30 km and ~60 km.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi. … 009539.pdf
Peak of Olympus Mons: 30 pascals (0.3 millibars)
Hellas Planitia: 1,155 pascals (11.5 millibars)
even at the bottom of Hellas we will need to have a dome over it to be able to do this
]]>
If the goal is Terraforming, is a wasteful idea. Using to make greenhouses, for every kwh you spend into create the gases you trap a lot more from sun light. A lot more efficient any idea instead direct brute force warming.
But if the goal is to make things (massive manufacturing), certanly we could turn Mars into a gigant factory where there was so many nuclear energy as sun (fusion in the future) as much as allow the waste heat up to warm up Mars to Earth levels.
But if the goal is to make things (massive manufacturing), certanly we could turn Mars into a gigant factory where there was so many nuclear energy as sun (fusion in the future) as much as allow the waste heat up to warm up Mars to Earth levels.
]]>Anyway, I think it does show that you could do a lot with roving robot vehicles. Might be better to have them just heat up regolith.
Planetary size trenches would require identification and exploitation of existing weaknesses. I suppose you would be looking to start the formation of new canyons, thereby exposing fresh substrate. Your only chance of success in this, in a reasonably short term, would be the use of thermonuclear weapons. I know of some folks who have these, and some who almost certainly do but aren't saying. Neither group will give them to anybody else! Attempts to make your own are likely to be curtailed.
Louis,
I believe a lot can be done with solar panels but what do you do when you have a long lasting dust storm?
I can't see musk provide power for weeks to even months on end with his battery packs.Or you must be able to beam power from orbit if that is possible with a dust storm.
louis wrote:"When colonizing Mars we would bring nuclear reactors to generate our electrical power"
Musk and Space X have explicitly committed to PV power for the Mars settlement. It's part of Musk "brand image", so I can't really seeing him committing to nuclear power reactors. Not to say that nuclear power wouldn't be theoretically useful in terraformation. But I think the job of heating up Mars can be done more efficiently by solar power satellites reflecting insolation on to the Mars surface and through production of greenhouse gases.
One thing I wonder about is whether it would make sense to dig trenches on Mars, thus exposing more of the surface area to such reflected insolation? Would that increase outgassing? I've no idea.
I believe a lot can be done with solar panels but what do you do when you have a long lasting dust storm?
I can't see musk provide power for weeks to even months on end with his battery packs.
Or you must be able to beam power from orbit if that is possible with a dust storm.
"When colonizing Mars we would bring nuclear reactors to generate our electrical power"
Musk and Space X have explicitly committed to PV power for the Mars settlement. It's part of Musk "brand image", so I can't really seeing him committing to nuclear power reactors. Not to say that nuclear power wouldn't be theoretically useful in terraformation. But I think the job of heating up Mars can be done more efficiently by solar power satellites reflecting insolation on to the Mars surface and through production of greenhouse gases.
One thing I wonder about is whether it would make sense to dig trenches on Mars, thus exposing more of the surface area to such reflected insolation? Would that increase outgassing? I've no idea.
I agree with Terraformer in getting a piggyback ride to mars would be the way to go in as cheap as we can but its going to be small in size something along the cube sat's size that just were there to support insights landing...
]]>Fortunately, we should be able to do that with quite a small, inexpensive mission. A big mirror should do the trick, and an infra-red spectrometer to analyse the plume. Perhaps cheap enough that the Mars Society could run a kickstarter campaign for it - particularly if Musk offers a free launch piggybacking on any spare payload.
]]>Musk and Space X have explicitly committed to PV power for the Mars settlement. It's part of Musk "brand image", so I can't really seeing him committing to nuclear power reactors. Not to say that nuclear power wouldn't be theoretically useful in terraformation. But I think the job of heating up Mars can be done more efficiently by solar power satellites reflecting insolation on to the Mars surface and through production of greenhouse gases.
One thing I wonder about is whether it would make sense to dig trenches on Mars, thus exposing more of the surface area to such reflected insolation? Would that increase outgassing? I've no idea.
Hello,
After watching the documentary Mars Making the New Earth | Full Documentary on YouTube, I wondered if it would be possible to do this without the super greenhouse gases, but just with the present greenhouse gases CO2 and H2O that should be in the Martian Soil.
One would need to warm the Martian soil instead of the Martian atmosphere to get the gases (CO2 and H2O) out of the ground.
When colonizing Mars we would bring nuclear reactors to generate our electrical power. But what we would do with the remaining "waste" heat is put it in to the atmosphere. Here I think it would be better to do a “reverse” geothermal process and put the remaining heat in to the surface of Mars as seen in the picture below. This process will directly “activate” the CO2 and H20 in the soil.
https://www.edenproject.com/sites/defau … ration.jpg
Currently we would like our reactors to be as energy efficient as possible, this is a good thing here on earth, but for Mars we can use the remaining heat as a terraforming. Also making it even possible to extract liquid water from the soil, instead of mining it.
Still I have a few questions that I wonder about:
What will happen to the subsurface if liquid water exists?
Will we have shifts of the soil?
Will the soil shifts endangering the colony?
How many systems like this would we need to fully terraform Mars up to the point humans don’t need a spacesuit? Is it even possible?
Would it be possible to create a warm "layer" in the crust so we can reactivate the Martian core dynamo over many thousands of years? Together with other systems off course
What will the negative effects be?
…
Does anybody know any good reading material on these subject?
Kind regards
Ben
I did a calculation once. Using figures from the textbook above, which cites the paper by McKay. If you build 10 sites on Mars to mine fluorine minerals to feed chemical plants to produce PFC and SF6 (super greenhouse gasses), and each site has 4 ore processors with the same capacity as ore processors in Alberta's tar sands, and if you operate those ore processors 24/7 (continuously), then it should take 13 years to produce sufficient super greenhouse gasses to terraform Mars. In practice there would be time building those facilities, and the first facilities would start operating as soon as completed, not sit idle. And facilities would never operate continuously for 13 years, there would be down-time for maintenance and repairs. But this gives you a ballpark figure.
Once those gasses are in the atmosphere, it would take more time to warm Mars. Remember, the gasses act as a blanket, the heat still comes from sunlight. A planet is a very big thing to warm. Once it is warm enough, that heat will sublimate dry ice and melt water ice, so once a "tipping point" is reached, Mars will continue to warm itself by releasing CO2 and H2O until a new equilibrium is reached.
Also, atmospheric pressure of 170 millibar is enough for a person to walk outside without a pressure suit. You would have to breathe pure oxygen, and that breathing gas (O2) would require high humidity to prevent low pressure from quickly dehydrating your lung tissue. A person in their prime (late teens to early 40s), healthy and strong, and gone through high altitude training. At 300 millibar, anyone can do it, even senior citizens. Would still require pure oxygen. The textbook cites 2 papers written by different authors, which estimate Mars surface pressure once all dry ice is sublimated. Both papers were written before Mars Global Surveyor, so need updating. One paper estimate final pressure at 200 millibar, the other 300 millibar. Since then Europe's Mars Express used ground penetrating radar to map subsurface ice. It measured the south pole is not permafrost, the ice is too clean. It's a polar ice cap covered in a thin skiff of wind-blown dirt. And it's 3.7km deep! In places it extends to 60° latitude; it's huge! And there's a large deposit of dry ice embedded within the water ice. I haven't found anyone willing to recalculate the Mars CO2 budget based on latest information. What would the final surface pressure be?
]]>Years ago I wrote a thread: Amazon books - sponsor the Mars Society
I don't think the Mars Society has the sponsor deal any more, but the books are relevant. Here's a good one...although the price is now, um, what!?!Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513MSkGr-ZL._SL500_SR63,100_.jpg
Maybe they should make it a sticky
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