Military Report Says Space Force Must Prepare for Moon Warfare
https://futurism.com/the-byte/military- … on-warfare
The Antarctic Treaty: a unique governance for the environment and science
https://www.encyclopedie-environnement. … d-science/
With the radical ideas like drugs, booze, prostitution, jails and gambling perhaps Mars will have vices, Mars might attract Neo-Traditional or Puritan but also the type getting away from something where marriage would be a dying institution? It reminds me of that whole Mens Rights, Red Pill, "Men in Crisis" movement, couples turning marriage into expansive dates, till death do us part but going to continue making such promises when their real-life experience shows them the very opposite?
Maybe one Day Film makers or Gamers or people writing books will go to Mars because the planet has more creative freedom to be pro-Men, pro-Women, pro-America, pro-Africa, pro-Asia or Sexist or whatever crazy movement of the day?
The Red Pill is a 2016 American documentary film directed by Cassie Jaye. The film explores the men's rights movement, as Jaye spends a year filming the leaders and followers within the movement. The Australian premiere at the Palace Kino cinema in Melbourne cancelled their planned November 6 screening after a petition circulated that called the film "misogynistic propaganda".
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-an … sa79y.html
GamerGate, ComicsGate, and Sad Puppies — And Why They’re All the Same
https://medium.com/reflections-of-a-gro … d1689c8cdb
Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids.
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3225/1
'But beyond simply the ability to achieve immortality for humanity, there has been a utopian undercurrent to space advocacy, a belief that space settlement will allow for the creation of new societies, coupled with a belief that these societies will be better than those on Earth. Robert Zubrin has advocated a version of this vision, claiming that the challenges of settling Mars will produce incredible technological rewards and a renewal of the American spirit. Many other space settlement advocates believe that space settlements offer the opportunity to throw off the shackles of oppressive government and start a new society, with fewer rules and a fantastic view of Olympus Mons. Such arguments tend to be very American-centric, relying upon cultural myths of the settlement of the American West that are not only highly distorted, but also not shared by non-Americans, or even younger Americans.'
]]>Makes me wonder if maybe a pneumatic drill mounted onto a tractor is a less complex and easier solution for a first base. We don't need to drill miles of tunnels to start off. We just need to carve out a set of chambers linked by corridors. We managed to dig mines on Earth long before we had tunnel boring machines.
Earth bag construction has been discuseed before. We would need to bring the bags from Earth but they would be relatively light.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthbag_construction
There will also be a need for relaxing activities, which means some use of alcoholic beverages, hallucinogenic substances, and probably even prostitution.
Supreme Court of India recognizes sex work as a ‘profession’
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ … 1.ece?s=09
the Alcohol thread
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7376
Here are some details about McMurdo station,
"More than 85 buildings with facilities
Some very interesting farming experiments also
I will have to dig through some of the Robot Farm and Verticle Farming threads to find and re-post some very interesting experiments done in the South Pole Stations.
To accomodate the 10 people maybe the following breakdown what would be realistic since we will not be all experts on everything.
Media and Communications is a 2 fold item to which the documentary and advance movie making are a far off thought. The standard beaming of science and other aspects of reporting to earth as a must would be the limits such as to not tax the systems data rates.
I'm hoping that Musk will also deliver a step change in data transfer from Mars. Once again he is developing useful expertise, in this case with his orbital internet for Earth. I think also Space X show themselves to be very media-savvy and will want to ensure that a strong media presence for Mars gets priority.
Energy generation if with PV and some RTGs if nuclear is clearly not happening (learn lean concepts to keep reserves high for the unexpected, maintain cell dust levels for maximuum energy production, monitor battery conditions)
Yes, in the early phase you definitely need to plan for energy storage in some form, whether it be batteries, or methane/oxygen or something else. As I've noted before though, even the worst dust storms don't reduce PV generation by more than 80%. I think plan for 5x emergency energy requirement and ensure you deliver energy storage as part of the non-human cargo package delivered in advance of humans arriving on Mars.
Industrial production of Construction would be limited (exploration search for minerals, science testing)
Mars mining (water, building materials stored for future use, precious ore or gem stones come later and are samples for return flight)
I agree that, for Mission One, construction effort should be limited. In fact until you probably get beyond 50 people it's probably easier just to import inflatable or other prefab habs rather than devote a lot of effort to construction. Beyond that it probably becomes necessary to use your industrial infrastructure to create ISRU constructed habs on Mars.
Accommodation hab (including a health monitoring unit)
Medical staff crew members (will be a shared responsibilty to learn)
Agriculture and food production (initial trials of quick grow plants all should give it a try)
Life Support and Waste Management (monitor equipment and learn recycling)Science lab/workshop including 3D printer to assure safe Scientific research projects ( limit to search for past and present life above and below surface, explore caves if found)
Rover for exploration and use for Mars exploration projects ( learn how to make them rover life expentancy longer by maintaning condition of use, limit terrain abuse to vehicle) Transport Maintenance Would be nice if it could be done inside a sealed atmospheric car port but the will need to wait on the first missions and will be walk arounds to veiw for damage.
I think a Rover could avoid a lot of wheel abuse if fitted with a bulldozer style attachment to get rocks out of the way.
Is cave exploration safe for Mission One? I'd have my doubts. Why risk a disaster (cave collapse)?
It seems like there is still quite a lot of research to be done on life support recycling to avoid glitches. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Musk has opted for a big rocket approach - to provide a strong element of fail safeness should recycling failures occur.
Yes, try out some salad vegetables, some beans...anything quick growing.
]]>Future mission build up to the 100 would mean a command structure within the first crew to handle what must be done. So this first groups are future needs from lists created by Louis.
Space X admin is a future need (colony, mission command on Mars) not really needed until we get to more than a few projects or activities taking place in different areas of mars. Emergency Response is not really a possible effort from earth but only a base to base issue once we are to the advance colonies count of people on mars.
Central Admin, Habs Support and Management (Air. Shelter. Water. Food and Exploration) are a future only required to monitor actual staffing once we begin to reach colony size of resource management. Gym and sports hall management will also be an advance colony item with just some equipment to be sent to maintain health of crews in the early stages of a developing colony build up.
Mars University Institute (science) is future requirement to better document science, to keep from duplicating research and for forwarding of findings once colony size and number of activities increase.
Warehouse, Retail and distribution is a real distant future item as this requires some sort of barter or money for individuals
To accomodate the 10 people maybe the following breakdown what would be realistic since we will not be all experts on everything.
Media and Communications is a 2 fold item to which the documentary and advance movie making are a far off thought. The standard beaming of science and other aspects of reporting to earth as a must would be the limits such as to not tax the systems data rates.
Energy generation if with PV and some RTGs if nuclear is clearly not happening (learn lean concepts to keep reserves high for the unexpected, maintain cell dust levels for maximuum energy production, monitor battery conditions)
Industrial production of Construction would be limited (exploration search for minerals, science testing)
Mars mining (water, building materials stored for future use, precious ore or gem stones come later and are samples for return flight)
Space Agency staff (Rocket Landing command, return, Communication)
Propellant production of Methane and Lox production (monitor quality, quantity and nore any difficulties in manufacturing)
Spaceport and rocket preparation (maintenance for return vehicle as fuel is made of air qualtity, batteries and other power source components)
Accommodation hab (including a health monitoring unit)
Medical staff crew members (will be a shared responsibilty to learn)
Agriculture and food production (initial trials of quick grow plants all should give it a try)
Life Support and Waste Management (monitor equipment and learn recycling)
Science lab/workshop including 3D printer to assure safe Scientific research projects ( limit to search for past and present life above and below surface, explore caves if found)
Rover for exploration and use for Mars exploration projects ( learn how to make them rover life expentancy longer by maintaning condition of use, limit terrain abuse to vehicle) Transport Maintenance Would be nice if it could be done inside a sealed atmospheric car port but the will need to wait on the first missions and will be walk arounds to veiw for damage.
]]>- Energy generation (Space X appear to be running with PV but perhaps they will take some RTGs as well)
- Propellant production.
- Accommodation hab (including a health monitoring unit)
- Science lab/workshop (including 3D printer)
- Rover for exploration.
But of course with nearly 300 tonnes delivered to the planet there's scope to do a lot more.
The DNA changes observed in the twin experiment are interesting...though, let's not get carried away and think they are necessarily life-shortening changes. Most long term zero G astronauts seem to live into old age and of course Mars isn't itself zero G.
So, if we are concerned about that, one option would be to have a centrifuge hab for sleeping and exercise if we really want to tackle low G effects:
https://www.nasa.gov/ames/research/spac … centrifuge
The above centrifuge is 60 feet in diameter and I would guess weighs something like 2 tonnes, perhaps more. It has 3 compartments. I think putting up a hab to house such a centrifuge would be feasible. I am not sure you could use an inflatable. But maybe the crew could assemble the building from parts.
A NASA study showed just a relatively short time in 2G (just an hour a day) could prevent muscular atrophy. So if that is the case, the centrifuge could just be part of the exercise routine.
However, weighted suits on Mars could probably do the same job in terms of muscular atrophy. The cause of negative effects on the immune system is unknown I believe - so that argues more for the centrifuge.
Lets look at scaling down the list of 1000 towards that to which is a first mission sizing since the duration of that mission with out knowing the dangers of being on a reduced shielding planet for the health reasons since the twin experiment shows that even the DNA was damaged such that 7% still has not comeback. So a 1% mission is 10 people which more than satifies the question of gravity and exposure. So should the next mission be of a greater than 100 is the question as we will need to build from what is remaining with the crew new supplies and what remains behind from that first which is still useable.
So the only requirement is to refine the list on the first 10 to specialize in what needs to be done is detail the mission and adjust the personel for that mission.
Louis-
I live in the American west, and have to live with the sight of solar farms and wind farms on a daily basis. I find them highly offensive visually. I'm not willing to accept solar other than strictly local as part of other structures (solar panel roofs, for example). I had an opportunity to lease part of my property for a wind farm and declined to do so because of neighborhood social pressures. Solar roof for any structure? GO FOR IT! Outside--clearly in my view--forget it. I envision a small outside solar array as a necessary part of the first pioneer outpost, but after that--nuclear is clearly the best answer if the settlement is deigned to grow. How many times would a solar farm need to be displaced by outward settlement growth? You envision hills covered with solar panels--I don't.
Such matters can however be settled by the democratic process.
With respect to solar panels, I do agree that the desolation of Mars is indeed a part of why someone would visit (such as myself), especially given that it's like the American West or Australian Outback but much larger than both of those put together and much dryer, and I can see why too much development might ruin that (much of Southern California is ruined IMO by development, although there's still much of nature). On the other hand, I do think there's enough room for both a solar area on one area and natural beauty in another. Ultimately, though, I do favor nuclear over solar for a mature colony (i.e., around many hundreds to thousands of settlers, and more) simply due to reasons of space, availability during dust storms and nighttime, and efficiency.
Maybe after a few decades life support technology will have improved and rocket transport costs will have reduced by so much that full scale "homestead" colonisation becomes feasible.
At this juncture: let's simply "get there!" And as access improves, so will the associated problems of a frontier society. Maybe careful screening will minimize (but not eliminate) "antisocial behavior." This means that there will of necessity be some form of "societal behavior enforcement," i.e. cops and a holding facility (jail). There will also be a need for relaxing activities, which means some use of alcoholic beverages, hallucinogenic substances, and probably even prostitution. These are not normally discussed at Mars Society meetings, but a look back to the American frontier in the 1870 through even 1910, will serve to illustrate the possibilities which may (probably) arise.
One factor Louis continues to overlook in his solar planning is the visual impact of the myriad of solar panels he envisions. For visitors to Mars, they don't really want to see a massive solar farm, they want to see the magnificent desolation of the planet. I happen to believe that tourism will play an important role in early visitation to the red planet, and as a result there will be massive resistance by the (hopefully) burgeoning tourist industry. Yes, as he states, there is a lot of land on Mars, and dedication of too much of it to his solar farm would really offend me. There are plenty of places here on Earth where I can go look at these!
For the avoidance of doubt, I was not suggesting the base would have 1000 people from the get-go but rather was looking at how the equivalent of a McMurdo base might look on Mars. I think Mission One is likely to involve even fewer people than you suggest (less than 10). But with BFRs in operation, you could easily get up to 1000 people over 10 launch windows (20 years).
I was working on an average of three years of stays on Mars - with some people working on 2 year projects and others on 4 years.
Space based solar power might actually make sense on Mars. There's no wildlife to affect, and plenty of space to set up the rectennas. Being in orbit, the panels wouldn't be subject to dust storms.
How long would people be staying on Mars? 5 year tours of duty, leaving during the second launch window?
I really don't expect the first base to have 1000 people in it. More like 20, with a significantly smaller skeleton crew at the start. The focus would be on figuring out how to live on Mars, find out where the best locations are for various resources, finding out what unforeseen problems we have with our existing plans...