perhaps answer that 'Alien Life' question? but others say the stone and dust and rocks are from a long dead lake
JPL has already laid off one hundred contractors
One MSR they now state is equally expensive as 3 in-situ Robot Lab Rover exploration missions which studies samples on Mars without going back to Earth.
Some people have raised political issues like cross planet contamination. There is also supposed to be a Lab ready that is sealed on levels for Smallpox, Anthrax, bacteriology, virus and other agents of bioterror disease etc The International Committee Against Mars Sample Return (ICAMSR) is an advocacy group led by Barry DiGregorio, that campaigns against a Mars sample-return mission, DiGregorio also supports a view or conspiracy that several pathogens – such as common viruses – originate in space and probably caused some mass extinctions and pandemics.
https://web.archive.org/web/20021029170 … rs.sample/
Can NASA save this mission? China also has a mission and maybe if NASA does not go first but maybe the Chinese will get there first...and NASA might cancel the current mission anyways, any European state might pull funding. ESA is a bit lost and could be of no help, French were friendly with Russia's launch vehicles arriving in South America, Rosalind Franklin ExoMars Aurora Program, they had lander failures but looking good during Mars Express 20 years + in orbit and other missions Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO) but ESA now seems lost. Working with ESA Russia was to build a robotic Mars lander, Russian invasion of Ukraine has caused an indefinite delay of the programme, as the member states of the ESA voted to suspend the joint mission with Russia. A proposed mission is a proposed mission to collect rock and dust samples on Mars and return them to Earth has been around a long time.
One social media guy does education science videos, Simon Whistler makes a lot of video content, an English YouTube personality who currently resides in Prague, he runs sixteen social media channels at the same time and uploads lots of news, history and science content, he also does podcasts and made books on narration and audio production, he might also have mirror or sister websites and blogs.
'What’s Wrong with the Mars Sample Return Mission?'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_EjLTvhVrw
Final NASA 2024 spending bill defers decision on MSR funding
https://spacenews.com/final-nasa-2024-s … r-funding/
Congressional appropriators have released a final fiscal year 2024 spending bill that cuts NASA funding from what the agency received in 2023 while deferring a decision on spending for Mars Sample Return (MSR).
House and Senate appropriators released March 3 the bill text and report language for 6 of 12 appropriations bills for fiscal year 2024, including the commerce, justice and science (CJS) spending bill that funds NASA. Congress is expected to pass the bills before the continuing resolution funding the agencies covered by the bill expires March 8.
The bill provides $24.875 billion for NASA, 2% less than what the agency received in 2023 and 8.5% less than the $27.185 billion NASA requested for 2024. The final figure is also below the levels in the separate House and Senate bills of $25.367 billion and $25 billion, respectively.
On MSR, where the House and Senate offered vastly different figures, the final bill instead gives NASA flexibility. Uncertainty about spending on the program prompted NASA to reduce spending on MSR in November while under a continuing resolution, and that extended uncertainty led the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the lead center for MSR, to lay off 8% of its staff in February.
In the report accompanying the bill, appropriators noted NASA is reassessing the architecture of MSR through a group called the MSR Independent Review Board Response Team, or MIRT. “The agreement directs NASA to report no later than 60 days following completion of the MIRT report on the recommended path forward for MSR, within a balanced Science portfolio,” the report stated, including a year-by-year funding profile for MSR.
The report directs NASA to spend no less than $300 million, the amount in the Senate bill, on MSR, and up to the request of $949.3 million, the amount in the House bill. It also directs NASA to not lay off any more people in the MSR program until the agency provides Congress with the report on the future of MSR.
What seems to be the case is the Money does not add up, it is limited now so MSR isn't cut something else in planetary needs to be, the Moon, Europa Clipper, Titan Dragon Fly, Commercial Moon missions, possible future Enceladus mission, Ceres sample return.
maybe they can quickly re-design, its not dead yet
]]>Meridiani Planum appears to be rich in hematite spherules, which present one of the best iron ore resources on Mars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridiani_PlanumInterestingly, the high phosphorus content of rocks also suggests that this region will be rich in uranium and thorium. These two will be important energy resources on Mars. But Meridiani Planum is a long way from Cerberus Fossae, which is the region of Mars where geothermal energy is most abundant and where we may find the vital resource of liquid water. This would be the best place to establish an early base, which will eventually grow into a colony. The two regions are on opposite sides of the planet. As Martian population grows, there will be increasing interest in linking these two areas by roads.
On Earth, large igneous inclusions are associated with deposits of nickel, copper, titanium, iron, platinum, palladium, and chromium.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_MarsThe closest LII to Cerberus Fossae is Elysium.
As the Martian colony grows, the raw material requirements from these areas will grow. All are within the northern hemisphere and all border the northern plain. The plain itself is the easiest location for roads, as its topography is relatively flat and the plains are dominated by deep, fine regolith deposits suitable for road construction. I can forsee the Martian colonies constructing a ring road around the edge northern basin early in the colony development. This road will have numerous spurs leading to important sites.
The south will probably remain undeveloped for a long time. Topography makes in difficult to access and the northern plain is richer overall in water. The main target for human colonisation will be the northern hemisphere, in areas bordering the northern plain. These are the most valuable lands to begin scouting.
Of course mars sounds more like earth than we knew as tthe resources are not where we live seems to be a common theme.
]]>NASA Will Leave Mars Samples in Orbit Following “Orderly Shutdown” of Sample Return Program
https://spaceref.com/science-and-explor … n-program/
Facing uncertainty around its budget, NASA's MSR mission will focus on getting Mars samples into orbit
NASA to address concerns about Mars Sample Return mission's 'unrealistic budget'
https://www.space.com/nasa-to-address-f … rn-mission
At such low cost in fact NASA should offer an incentive prize akin to the X-prize to suborbital space won by SpaceShip one. Say $200 million to the team to do it.
Robert Clark
]]>newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=117054#p117054
I didn’t offer the calculation then for how it could be done though. I finally got around to it:
Low cost commercial Mars Sample Return.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2023/0 … eturn.html
This estimates using a launch on the Falcon Heavy a total mission cost of a few hundred million dollars using the commercial space approach of SpaceX.
In an upcoming blog post I’ll show the calculations for a smaller version of the mission with launch on the Falcon 9 at a total cost less than $100 million.
Robert Clark
]]>How did NASA and ESA screw up MarsSampleReturn? Even JAXA could have NASA beat and Japan has also shown interest in participating in taking samples from the Moons of Mars. From the surface only the USA and China have successfully operated Rovers in exploration on the surface of Mars.
Mars sample-return (MSR) is a simple enough idea, the mission is a proposed landing on Mars to collect rock/soil and dust samples on the Martian surface and return them to Earth and see what Mars is made from by examining the samples in a Lab back on Earth or even there were ideas for checking samples on the ISS Station...there was paranoia at first about how to examine samples, maybe this was due to watching scifi movies and fear of cross-contamination. Stored samples returned to Earth can be studied with the most sophisticated science instruments and Laboratory available. Doing joint missions is not a bad idea, the Hubble Space Telescope was a joint mission, the ISS a joint international project, the Cassini-Huygens exploration of the Saturn system. However something went wrong with Mars Sample Return mission, what are those factors sending it out of control? Perhaps the USA and mankind should already have a smaple returned, its possible with the right will power this could have been done already with the right will power with the Vikings landing in Chryse Planitia and Utopia Planitia. The US National Research Councileven one time declared an MSR campaign its highest priority Flagship Mission. Decades pass by, over twenty years ago JPL requested mission concepts and proposals from industry-led teams Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and TRW. Reports suggest that MSR of today has severe cost difficulties already, it is already an enormously complex mission, NASA and ESA's proposal is still in the design stage and facing significant cost overruns as of August 2023. 20 Years ago an ESA satellite Mars Express arrived at Mars in 2003, there was later an ExoMars programme led by the European Space Agency and the Russian Roscosmos State Corporation.The mission was scheduled to launch in July 2020 but postponed to 2022. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has caused an indefinite delay of the programme, the Rover Rosalind Franklin was going to move off a Russian lander named Kazachok which is gone. The NASA–ESA potential mission schedule anticipated launches from Earth in 2018, 2022 and 2024 to send Rovers with drills, science labs on the surface, helicopters, respectively a sample caching rover, then a Rocket on the surface, a sample return orbiter and a sample retrieval lander and then another complex mission for the return home which would probably do something else complicated before it got to Earth. The new Sample Fetching Helicopter (SFH) idea was talked about and talk about the Sample Transfer Arm (STA) development. In the month of April 2021, the Planetary Science Advisory Committee was "very concerned about the high cost" of MSR https://science.nasa.gov/researchers/na … ittees/pac
Mars Ascent Vehicle or MAV is to be launched in on board the SRL lander. US Congress has set the price limit on MSR at $5.3b. https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-puts- … 00280.html.
NASA’s Mars Sample Return has a new price tag—and it’s colossal
https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/t … ker-shock/
"It is better to not do it than to torch the whole science community."
Some people on social media said other companies such as Elon Musk's Space X in particular should be allowed bid or propose ideas to fix whatever is going on with Mars Sample Return although Space-X has not proven itself in landing planetary science missions it does flawlessly deliver people and cargo to the ISS.
The Senate Approps rpt on CJS has pretty harsh language about Mars Sample Return. "Alarmed" at cost growth, skdl slip, impact on other sci program. Wants a yr-by-yr funding profile that stays within the $5.3 B lifecycle cost from the Decadal Survey or the mission is cancelled.
https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/statu … 2816675845
The news from last year stated 'NASA Will Inspire World When It Returns Mars Samples to Earth in 2033'
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa … th-in-2033
As NASA's MSR stumbles with money and complexity problems, another nation like China now has the possibility of landing on Mars, doing a simpler mission grabbing any sample and bringing it back all in one-go before the USA or NASA or Europe get any sample.
]]>SLS not the only one eating the budget but also MSR costs
The Mars Sample Return Mission is Starting to Look Expensive
It is sort of three mission in 1 for the parts that are needed to get just a small amount of mars back to study directly in labs
]]>Sample return were considered in the 60s and 1970s, they probably would have done it successful in the 90s with the political willpower and keeping things simple. The NASA mission is far more complex than China's mission, searching around for samples of greater scientific value, a committee of different people adding their own packages maybe that is what has been adding to costs. The Russian or Soviets also once looked at a Mars sample-return mission they also have been look at a Mars-Moon sample with Mars-Grunt but the Russian program is going nowhere these days and all its money and energy is for war and the invasion of Ukraine. The Chinese mission seems more simple like what was studied in the 60s and 80s, send a Long March 5 and an orbiter and return module, launch it all, grab a bit of Mars and then comeback. Samples would be returned to Earth in July 2031, this gives China less science but more political bragging right, news media will say perhaps they did it first.
JPL/JSC Mars Sample Return Study I (1984)
https://www.wired.com/2012/12/jpljsc-ma … dy-i-1984/
NASA and its contractors have planned missions to return samples from Mars since the mid-1960s. Mars Sample Return is considered by many to be the most advanced robotic Mars mission. In the 1980s, NASA conducted a multi-year study of a large-scale Mars Sample Return mission. Beyond Apollo blogger David S. F. Portree outlines the initial phase of the study then criticize NASA for a sample return which has yet to materialize.
'Mars Sample Return cost growth threatens other science missions'
https://spacenews.com/mars-sample-retur … -missions/
NASA’s effort to return samples from Mars is facing increasing costs that is putting pressure not just on other planetary science missions but also a major heliophysics mission.
https://twitter.com/NASAPersevere/statu … 1463883776
'We've got some good sample hunters in the comments! Many can pick out two tubes fairly easily by following my tracks. And if you download the high-res selfie you might spot several more'
Video
The mission to return martian samples back to Earth will see a European 2.5 metre-long robotic arm pick up tubes filled with precious soil from Mars and transfer them to a rocket for an historic interplanetary delivery.
The sophisticated robot, known as the Sample Transfer Arm or STA, will play a crucial role in the success of the Mars Sample Return campaign.
The Sample Transfer Arm is conceived to be autonomous, highly reliable and robust. The robot can perform a large range of movements with seven degrees of freedom, assisted by two cameras and a myriad of sensors. It features a gripper – akin to a hand – that can capture and handle the sample tubes at different angles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0SqlCr_jY
In support of the NASA-ESA Mars Sample Return, rock, regolith (Martian soil), and atmosphere samples are being cached by Perseverance. Currently, out of 43 sample tubes, 21 of them have been cached, including 15 rock sample tubes, two regolith sample tubes, an atmosphere sample tube, and three witness tubes. Before launch, 5 of the 43 tubes were designated “witness tubes” and filled with materials that would capture particulates in the ambient environment of Mars.
https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/26218/p … e-tube-266
Perseverance's complex Sampling and Caching System takes almost an hour to retrieve the metal tube from inside the rover's belly, view it one last time with its internal Cachecam, and drop the sample ~0.89 m (2 ft 11 in) onto a carefully selected patch of Martian surface.
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/9323/nasas-p … rs-surface
Mars Sample Recovery Helicopters are a pair of robotic unmanned helicopters being developed by the engineers of the American company AeroVironment Inc. and proposed in March 2022 as a means of delivering Martian soil samples from the sample depots made by the Perseverance rover to the location of the Sample Retrieval Lander (SRL) that will load these samples onto the Mars Ascent Vehicle (MAV), which, in accordance with the NASA-ESA Mars Sample Return program, will deliver them to low Martian orbit for future return to earth
Mars 2020 Rover Adaptive Caching Assembly: Caching Martian Samples for Potential Earth Return
https://dataverse.jpl.nasa.gov/dataset. … 2014/52365
2021: Samples in Review
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/ … in-review/
Written by Rachel Kronyak, Systems Engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Sample Recovery Helicopters would take off and land at predetermined sites, or helipads, that have been found suitable and safe, and would use in-flight, map-based navigation to reach the known locations of sample tubes left on the surface
https://mars.nasa.gov/msr/spacecraft/sa … licopters/
The tubes will not be piled up at a single spot. Instead, each tube-drop location will have an "area of operation" 5.5 m (18 ft) in diameter. To that end, the tubes will be deposited on the surface in an intricate zigzag pattern of 10 spots for 10 tubes, with each sample ~5 m (16 ft) to 15 m (49 ft) apart from one another near the proposed Sample retrieval lander's landing site. There are various reasons for this plan, biggest for placing them far apart being that is that sample recovery helicopters because they are designed to interact with only one tube at a time. Alongside, they will perform takeoffs and landings, and driving in that spot. To ensure a helicopter could retrieve samples without any problem, the plan to be executed properly and would span over more than two months.
Mars Ascent Vehicle MAV is a two-stage, solid-fueled rocket that will deliver the collected samples from the surface of Mars to the Earth Return Orbiter.
]]>The return orbiter will launch in November of 2028 in both cases. The lander/ascender will launch in Dec or May.
This is from a speech of Sun Zezhou,...